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Meshaal told to choose between committing to Quartet's conditions and Bin Laden's fate

Middle East Monitor (2011-05-09)

This Page: http://www.copswiki.org/Common/M1164
Media Link: http://www.middleeastmonitor.org.uk/news/middle-east/2321-meshaal-told-to-choose-between-committing-to-quartets-conditions-and-bin-ladens-fate
More Info: Israeli Palestinian Conflict, Nine Eleven

Is assassination becoming a popular way to deal with political problems? Israel thinks it is appropriate to assassinate a Hamas figurehead "the same way bin Laden was dealt with." No wonder we took such actions off limits. Hamas was democratically elected, but if you don't like the result of the ballot box, bullets rule. I think this is a slippery slope, folks.

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Comment Reconstruction

During the discussion, a Facebook persona "Steve VonMaas" went into melt-down mode. Prior to this point, I had notified him of the rules of etiquette and asked him to reveal his employer and occupation. He would not directly answer those questions. After the meltdown, he deleted his comments. The deleted comments are highlighted

Don Gillett likes this.

Gabriel Slatton Really it is nothing new at all Raymond. It's been the way of the world since the beganing in fact has it not?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:34pm

Ray Lutz Indeed, I admit that even this sort of killing was taught repeatedly in biblical accounts. Kill the king, all his concubines, and all his offspring. Genocide, if you will. All biblical, all endorsed by religions "of the book"
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:36pm

Steve VonMaas ‎"religions of the book", Ray? Are you a Muslim now?

Gabe, Ray is still worked up over the whole shooting of John Wilkes Booth thing, so what do you expect?!
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:37pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley Let's all take Ray out for a beer. He deserves it! smile
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:46pm

Steve VonMaas ‎(Unless he's a Muslim now, because they don't drink, unless in furtherance of cover for a jihad.)
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:48pm

Gabriel Slatton Ray just refuses to get this simple concept Steve. He always has to complicate it for some reason.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:57pm

Gabriel Slatton Yea we can take him down to the local Pub and order him the latest drink...It's called a Bin Laden.....two shots and a splash of water....LOL
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:59pm

Gabriel Slatton I will buy

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 6:59pm

Maribel Del Villar Pérez islam is also a religion of the book, steve.

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 7:12pm

Steve VonMaas -- Maribel, they have a book, but in that book, they refer to Jews and Bible-believers as "People of the Book" which appears to be a phrase Ray likes.

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 7:14pm

Maribel Del Villar Pérez i see what you refer to, i didn't know what you were talking about since jews also use that term.

May 9, 2011 at 7:21pm

Ray Lutz Christianity, Islam, and Judaism are technically all religions "of the book" and they all recount the creation myth substantially the same way (albeit with some very important differences). LDS church might be lumped into the same group.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 7:25pm

Ray Lutz
Most of the "Old Testament" is a history of the Jewish culture, and recounts many wars and genocidal cleansings, all approved by the good Lord above. The question still remains... Does God love wars, killing and such genocides? Or, is he inept, and unable to purge such evil -- i.e. not powerful enough? Or is he simply absent from the scene, letting it free-run? Now, I guess the Jews want to assassinate the ruler from the Muslim world. That's what we get with such religions.

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 7:52pm


Otto Hunt www.evilbible.com
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:04pm

Gabriel Slatton Yea Ray...God is inept..... Could it be that your thinking is the thing that is inept? The later is far more likely since God is not imperfect but humans most certainly are. Unless you think you are different than all the rest of us and have it all figured out.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:10pm

Nyabingi Kuti The Bible is fiction, when will supposedly civilized people realize that?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:13pm

Voce Moody It is interesting to talk with a Jewish scholar like a Rabbi. Their take on the old testament would shock most Christians right out of their socks. They consider very little of it to be "Divinely Inspired"
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:13pm

Voce Moody They also talk about YHWH growing up over the time covered in their book
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:14pm

Gabriel Slatton That has always been the problem with the Jewish and other scholars. That is why Jesus took them to task all the time and why they wanted to kill him among other reasons.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:25pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley so, where do we all meet? It's my birthday BTW, and I'm out with the fam for Thai
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:25pm

Pam Hoye True. The "Bible as Word of God" is essentially an aspect of Christian church doctrine, especially claimed by the more fundamentalist denominations. YHWH "growing up"....might be better understood as the evolution of human understanding of the Divine.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:48pm

Voce Moody possible. they also talk about that but if you read the Jewish texts YHWH does change how it relates to humanity. And before anyone jumps me YHWH is genderless in the Hebrew texts
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 8:50pm

Michael Russell On the other hand, I don't like a lot of people ... hmmmm... this could be a lot easier than the 'democratic' change we've been hoping for. If it's good enough for Obama, and it is sanctioned by the church and the jews, that's good for me.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:07pm


Gabriel Slatton The Bible is not fiction. When will supposedly civilized people realize that.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:14pm

Ray Lutz
And, Voce Moody, YHWH is plural too. Michael Russell, you're starting to worry me. Are you "growing up" like YHWH?

We are faced with the stark reality that these religions are probably the worst thing in our reality... no end of problems. Each side thinks they have God on their side.

Gabriel Slatton, please let's not start trying blame the Jews for killing Jesus. You can't blame them for something that was part of God's plan, can you?

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:16pm


Michael Russell How about when it stops contradicting itself. Or when it successfully predicts the future. Or when it lists a source that is valid, testable, and reproducible. Oh, sorry I'm thinking rationally again.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:16pm

Michael Russell ‎(Yea, I worry myself) [satire] but when I think about all the inefficient time I waste trying to reach out to immature and irrational minds, and they are just going to destroy everything anyway, it just seems so much more efficient to use their own means against them. Armageddon is a self fulfilling prophecy.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:20pm

Voce MoodyRay Lutz Yes it could be but more often it is singular
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:26pm

Voce Moody ‎@ Gabriel Slatton I don't see what being "Civilized" has to do with believing the Bible there are many civilizations that do not recognize it as supreme. In point of fact there are many civilizations that have existed longer than Christianity or Judiasm that recognize either one as being the true way
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:30pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley Imagine all the people living for today.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:30pm

Ray Lutz Imagine no religions, it's easy if you try.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:31pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley Imagine there's no heaven. Above us only sky.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:35pm

Voce Moody watch out! remember to John. next thing you know there will be crazies at both your doors looking to shoot you like they did hom
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:36pm

Voce Moody ‎*what happened* to John I hate it when my fingers get tangled
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:37pm

Steve VonMaas -- Your blasphemy is as boring, cliche and ignorant as is your psychotic 9-11 fantasies. You are some of the most ignorant children I have ever encountered. How anyone let any of you out of high school is a bigger mystery than why people would vote for a Bush.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:41pm

Voce Moody Sounds like someone is a bit full of themselves
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:42pm

Ray Lutz Steve, we went over this off-line. It is against the rules of my forums threads for you to get off on personal remarks. It is a fallacy of logic, the ad hominem attack, so please stick to the claims and not the person.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:44pm

Steve VonMaas -- ‎"We are faced with the stark reality that these religions are probably the worst thing in our reality... no end of problems." But it's not against your rules to be an ignorant ass, is it?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:45pm

Voce Moody And why is it blasphemy only if someone disagrees with YOUR prejudgices? From my perspective you are the blasphemer
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:45pm

Steve VonMaas You're rude, too, Moodyman.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:46pm

Ray Lutz Hee hee, your rude talk only makes you look like a fool, Steve VonMaas. Do you have control of yourself?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:46pm

Voce Moody You too Steve. That's what I was getting at
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:47pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley Imagine all the people living for today,...
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:47pm

Steve wrote: "Imagine all the fascists, burning up in flames..."
9:49 PM

Steve VonMaas -- It's pretty hilarious when un-American nitwits with paranoid delusions about everything from space aliens to the U.S. government, and no respect for other peoples' religions, call somebody else "rude".
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:49pm

Ray Lutz You represent Christianity well, Steve VonMaas. Keep it going. Prove my point even more.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:50pm

Voce Moody You don't even see how rude and ignorant you appear do you Steve?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:50pm

Gabriel Slatton Steve does have a point on the rudeness Ray... You have plenty of it in your own corner. Perhaps you are just blind to it.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:51pm

Ray Lutz Are you a Christian, Steve VonMaas? You've been touting yourself as a NOTW'er for quite a number of days here.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:52pm

Steve wrote: "I'm not here representing "Christianity" you un-American, rude piece of shit."
9:52 PM

Steve wrote: "What the fuck are you talking about now, "congressman"?"
9:53 PM

Voce Moody And as for being Un-American. I'm disabled today because I was SOOO Un-American that I suffered two spinal injuries defending this country so Piss off!
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:53pm

Ray LutzGabriel Slatton, I'm not using reserved words. We don't need that sort of language in a civilized discussion.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:53pm

Steve wrote: "And Apache boy, why don't you go lose your own country and leave mine alone?"
9:53 PM

9:53 PM
Steve wrote: "Piss off yourself, injun"

Ray Lutz You'd better take a break, Steve. I don't want you to have a heart attack. Your fingers are really going here. It's laughable but I think I'm getting worried about your health.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:54pm

Voce Moody Why don't you leave MY country you Spawn of Illegal terrorist immigrants
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:54pm

9:55 PM
Steve VonMaas wrote: "Why don't you do a ghost dance, and maybe you can succeed, fascist?"

Voce Moody You ignorance is exceeded only by your EGO!
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:55pm

Michael Russell
No hell below us ... And no religion too.

You can't ask if assassination is popular, and then quote John Lennon lyrics. He was assassinated, just like Jesus.

I prefer revolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRXohEluXoc
...

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:57pm


Gabriel Slatton Wow...can't say as I like your last couple of outbursts there Steve. Usually I like what you have to say but it would not surprise me if you got canned for the last few posts.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:59pm

Steve VonMaas -- I may say you're a dreamer, but a paranoid delusional with anti-social features would be much closer.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 9:59pm

10:00 PM
Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "Hahaha! I'm almost finished. We're doing a hand-off tomorrow a.m. shift."

Voce Moody your ass is showing again Steve. Ghost dance wasn't an Apache thing. As for being Fascist well Re-read your own rants bucko. And Ray Lutz Steve isn't Civilized he has pretty well proved that.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:00pm

10:01 PM
Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "Like I care which Indian is which?"

Gabriel Slatton Lennon's death was not in the least like that of Jesus.....not even remotely.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:01pm

10:01 PM
Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "You're really the only people I've ever encountered which are just, basically, terrible"


Maribel Del Villar Pérez whoa, wtf is up with the name calling and racism? classy, steve, classy.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:01pm">12 hours ago

Michael Russell ‎@Gabriel Slatton: Yea, one was a divinely inspired profit of love, who changed the world, and created joy in the hearts of billions, the other was Jesus.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:02pm

Voce Moody Steve If you come to Apache territory you'd better care. Geez not only a Fascist but a Racist too! Will wonders never cease?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:03pm

10:03 PM
Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "I'm not a racist! I just hate Injuns."

Ray LutzMichael Russell -- I think the John Lennon lyrics is perfect. The assassinations of late are largely based on religious conflicts. Lennon was shining a light on it, and he was targeted by the govt for years. I remember attending the memorial when he died in Balboa Park. I rode my bicycle down and it was quite moving. (Revolution is good too.)
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:03pm

Steve VonMaas -- ‎"profit of spelling"
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:03pm

Gabriel Slatton Steve you are really out of line here Bud !!! I am married to an American Indian who is a Christian and your remarks are just F'ed up Pal...I mean really now.....way the hell out of line.

10:03 PM
Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "Whatever, Gabe!"


Voce Moody Hey Steve wanna play Injuns and dead white eyes?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:04pm

Michael Russell ‎@Steve VonMaas: hear that echo? It's in your head.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:05pm

Voce Moody and Yes there are Christian Indians
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:05pm

Steve VonMaas -- White Eyes was a Leni Lenape, numbnuts.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:05pm

Gabriel Slatton Hey Steve... You you an arrogant dick. You really are a jackASS you know that ? make sure you tell me what church you go to so that I never set foiot in the place ok?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:05pm

10:06 PM
Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "Gabe who said I go to a church? Where is all this crap coming from?"

Gabriel Slatton There are a LOT of Indians that are Christians. I have a family full of them.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:06pm

Ray Lutz Steve, good work undermining your credibility. I've been trying to show that you're a (*(*$&*%^*&$^*#&^$ but you're doing it much better than I could ever hope to! THANKS!!
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:06pm

Voce Moody No white Eyes is the Apache term for your people. Try and think. I know it's difficult but at least try <brMonday, May 9, 2011 at 10:06pm

10:07 PM (1 hour ago) Steve VonMaas also commented on Ray Lutz's link.
Steve wrote: "Try and think about this: I don't give a flying fuck what Apaches call "my people"."


Gabriel Slatton Ray this has gone far enough. get rid of Steve if he is going to be like this will you? We really don't need any of his racist crap do we?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:07pm

Michael Russell Wow, sounds like VonMaas is melting down, not even Gabe is on his side?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:07pm

Michael Russell No Censorship, just the truth of who we are. That is heaven.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:08pm

Gabriel Slatton Michael. I can never take the side of someone that is acting they way Steve is here this evening. I am really quite shocked
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:08pm

Voce Moody Don't go away mad Steve Just GO AWAY Like back to Europe
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:09pm

Ray Lutz That's what I mean. He is losing it and I am worried he will have a heart attack. Such hostility is toxic. His banter is so laughable, it is great watching him melt down! LOL.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:09pm

Voce Moody And Gabe I do know that there are many Native people who follow your way. Not all of us but many
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:10pm

Gabriel Slatton wow Ray...I never thought the guy was anything like this. And he says he is a Progressive? Boy does he give that word a bad name now
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:10pm

Gabriel Slatton I say promote peace as much as possible. After all Jesus is called the prince of peace.....Steve is way out of line. We all can see that easly. ....really astonishing to hear a Christian talk like that.....it's embarrassing for me and my wife here.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:12pm

Gabriel Slatton That's all I can take for now. Ray you really should do away with Steve after that. I am defriending him. I have never done that to anyone before but this outburst of his this evening warrents it in my opinion.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:14pm

Ray Lutz Gabe, I don't even know the guy. He won't even tell me what he does for a living, if anything, and I have suspected he is some sort of infiltrator. I'm happy to say the other members of the list are sophisticated enough to avoid his hostility and stand aside as he blows apart, but I must say, this sort of thing is not supposed to happen in public! Steve, I feel sorry for you!
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:14pm

Ray Lutz Now, it seems he is deleting all his bad statements. What a shame this is the sort of character we have to deal with.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:16pm

Gabriel Slatton I don't even know what to think about the guy at this point Ray.......I mean really I don't...that was one of the most ugly explosions I have ever witnessed in a public on line forum....and trust me I have seen a few melt downs but this one takes the cake...
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:16pm

Gabriel Slatton Sad Ray....very sad that his anger got the best of him like that. He does lack self control. I know God will forgive him and we should also but that was so uncalled for...one of the uglyist racist melt downs I have even see,
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:18pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley It's easy if you try...
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:19pm

Gabriel Slatton Steve.stuff a sock in it dude. I think you have said quite enough for one evening
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:19pm

Voce Moody ‎@ Gabriel Slatton I for one do not associate his ravings with you or your wife. By the way Which nation is she from if you don't mind my asking? @ Ray Lutz If you think he is an infiltrator then get rid of him!
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:19pm

Gabriel Slatton My wife is a member of the Cohaire tribe in central eastern North Carolina. She can go into great detail about her people.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:20pm

Ray Lutz I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. I understand that a group with an objector will do better than ousting them.

Now, I see Steve spouting out random stuff to make it seem like he is one some different plane or something. I've put this off for a long time, but I may have to unfriend him. Steve: Snap out of it! <brMonday, May 9, 2011 at 10:24pm

Voce Moody I hope to talk with her some day I would enjoy hearing her peoples history and stories.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:24pm

Gabriel Slatton They are part of the Cheroke nation
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:25pm

Voce Moody Ahhh Tsali's people
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:26pm

Voce Moody so was my stepfather
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:26pm

Gabriel Slatton We actually want to come to tomestone some day for a weekend trip. Perhaps we could meet in person?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:26pm

Ray Lutz My grandmother was a Cherokee. Lived in Kansas / Oklahoma area.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:26pm

Gabriel Slatton Coharie tribe...as usual I had the spelling all screwed up
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:27pm

Gabriel Slatton what side Ray...You mom or you dad?
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:28pm

Voce Moody Don't see why not. If we stay away from Religion we can get along very well. And That doesn't mean I won't let you pray before eating or such.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:29pm

Voce Moody By the way If anyone wants a transcript of the melt down I have it in a word document
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:30pm

Gabriel Slatton That was one of the strangest melt downs I have even seen in person
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:31pm

Gabriel Slatton I don't have to talk about religion all the time ya know. Just seems to end up like that here . If we were to come to your town for a couple of days it would be cool to go out for a meal togther. Then my wife could get to see a little of what western Indian culture is like.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:32pm

Ray LutzVoce Moody, Send it to raylutz@citizensoversight.org. Steve is unfriended and I'll block him. We just don't have time for this. I should have followed my intuition about the guy and unfriended him when he would not reveal who he works for.

My father's mother was Cherokee. My sister (was Valarie) follows that culture and changed her name to Rising Starr, per suggestion by Wilma Mankiller, leader of Cherokee Nation.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:34pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley as a woman voice here, I have been both enlightened and offended by some of his comments.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:34pm

Voce Moody I know you don't Gabriel. I recall us having a quite nice discussion just a few days ago. Sorry I shouldn't have said that. Put it down to nerves after the meltdown
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:35pm

Voce Moody Stephanie, If I offended I apologize
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:37pm

Ray Lutz
That's true, Stephanie Jan Ousley, but that is the pattern I have seen from this sort of infiltrator. They have a few good things to say. Sometimes become a key contributor, or take on a volunteer position that is very central to your goals...

Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:38pm


Gabriel Slatton No offence taken Voce....I am a little shaky myself after the Steve ordeal...well we will all get oever it in time....whew. I am not the suspicious type like Ray but even I am wondering who this guy really was now....that was just so over the top and plain weird as all get out
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:38pm

Voce Moody Ray That is quite an honor for your sister Wilma fought hard for her people before she crossed over
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:38pm

Gabriel Slatton well I am off to bed....see all of you later.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:39pm

Voce Moody G'nite Gabe
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:40pm

Ray Lutz It was nice to have an idea of our family history because it all sort of disappeared with my grandmother. Unfortunately, in her day, you did not admit your native roots without risking ostracism from the community.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:40pm

Ray Lutz Peace.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:40pm

Voce Moody I know Ray That was the case with my Wifes people and ny mothers family
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:41pm

Gabriel Slatton I was given some what of a strange bunch of looks when Norma and I dated some 33 years ago in NC. Still really a lot of ugly racism there. Even worse back then
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:41pm

Gabriel Slatton peace to all....
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:42pm

Voce Moody BTW My wife said to tell you that she has seen some of these infiltrators and heard of many more lately. It seems to be becoming a favorite tactic of late
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:42pm

Stephanie Jan Ousley Nite gentlemen:)
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 10:47pm

Robert Harper By far, the most multi-directed 'comment'tary I've ever read. Very informal. Great to see it ended in peace.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:01pm

Ray Lutz Apparently, most of the comments by Steve VonMaas have been self-deleted. I would have been embarrassed too.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:06pm

Voce Moody looks that way
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:07pm

Voce Moody And it appears that I only have the latter half of the melt. Apparently I wasn't fast enough making the copy frown
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:07pm

Ray Lutz You're smart to have that much. I didn't think ahead but I'll have to keep that tactic in mind if a similar situation arises. In a way, I am happy it became clear to the group that this guy was bad news, instead of just me doing it as the moderator.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:10pm

Robert Harper Old proverb, a fool is known by a multitude of words. He's more than likely, slower to speak from now on.
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:13pm

Voce Moody I always try to keep a record when things get heated. Lets me go back and be sure my rememberer is working correctly
Monday, May 9, 2011 at 11:14pm

Karen Beth Pearlman Completely offensive. Wow.
Tuesday, May 10, 2011 at 8:39am

Ray Lutz Now I notice that Steve VonMass is no longer a "persona" on Facebook. My guess is he works for Blackwater, et al and came here to stir up trouble. He fits that mold... heavy on the Christianity, pro-military, etc. On his facebook page, there was a picture of him being sworn in by a judge. I'm probably going to resurrect the whole thing on my web site so people can see what we're up against here.

Messages to Steve Von Maas

  • Ray Lutz

    April 6

    Ray Lutz

    • Steve:

      I have run email discussion lists for years, and sometimes I have to take someone aside and tell them the rules of engagement. You can read the rules I have had in place for years, here:

      http://www.copswiki.org/Common/ListServeEtiquette

      Some of these rules don't apply to Facebook style forums, but many do. I must insist that you refrain from making the debate personal, i.e. making personal remarks or threats. I have already had several complaints that people feel threatened by you and are worried you may have their home address. Specifically, the following is inappropriate:

      Steve VonMaas That reminds me: All women need to write my name on their notebooks. If you don't, you will be responsible for what happens next. DON'T make me tell you twice!

      Steve VonMaas I'm just pointing out that your "logic" should work with respect to any extortionists. Now stop insulting me, or you'll be responsible for what happens.

      Steve VonMaas You need serious logical counseling and first amendment counseling. Oh, and it's your fault I just kicked a dog, by the way, Stephanie.

      Steve VonMaas You people are precisely the ones that make Progressives seem like atheist nutjobs who can't reason and are weak on terrorism.

      Now, you call yourself a Christian, but I wonder what you are talking about when you conduct yourself this way. Please don't post messages to my FB page unless you plan to clean this up. By that I mean apologizing and changing your ways.

      If you continue, we will be forced to report you to the FB authorities.

      --Ray Lutz
    • ListServeEtiquette < Common < CopsWiki

      www.copswiki.org

      [[http://www.facebook.com/ajax/share_dialog.php?s=99&appid=2309869772&p[]=1456874235&p[]=206913296003046][Share]]

  • Ray Lutz

    April 8

    Ray Lutz

    • Steve, I expect a response from you before you start posting.

  • April 10

    • Now that is sad, Ray! I expect you to be in charge of important, real-life endeavors involving industry, commerce, government and the leading of men. Now you're taking facebook this seriously? Seriously? All I can say is that's sad. This is where underemployed losers and social misfits like me obtain the illusion that we're doing something significant. It's not supposed to be of overblown importance to the likes of you.

  • Ray Lutz

    April 10

    Ray Lutz

    • Enough of the BS, Steve. I need you to shape up, or ship out. You either are going to be an effective contributor, or you can go elsewhere. Yes, I am serious. Until you commit to changing your ways, please don't bother to post. On the other hand, I don't mind your point of view, as long as you can do it without personal remarks, threats, or rude behavior.

  • April 10

    • Ray, if you're going to talk like a girl, you should do so with a girl!

  • Ray Lutz

    April 10

    Ray Lutz

    • I guess you are really exposing yourself as an idiot. It's funny that people like you profess to be good Christians, but then when the time comes to show it, you buckle under and show your true stripes. So far you have been completely unable to address any of my concerns. I'll give you one more chance to prove that you can engage and address my concerns, or you can go on your merry way. So far, it seems you are just talking gibberish.

  • April 10

    • When did I ever profess to be a "good" Christian? There is no such thing!

      As for being rude or "threatening" or whatever, I think you must have me confused with some of your atheist asshole friends.

      You seem to have a serious underappreciation of irony, and your lack of respect for free speech really comes across through your constant impulse in support of the "heckler's veto," or in the more recent Koran burning case, the "terrorist's veto."

  • Ray Lutz

    April 10

    Ray Lutz

    • There are rules of engagement on my "wall" and if you want to engage here, you will have to abide by them. Since I doubt that you will be able to change the habits you have. Please don't waste your time commenting on those threads. On most email lists I have run, I sometimes run into subscribers who are rude and make personal remarks, things that are unproductive in the conversation, and on those lists, I can allow them to subscribe but I have to moderate their comments.

      This is not new for me as I have moderated such lists for many years, and I have no reaction to your comments other than to conclude that you may not be mature enough to engage in civil conversation about controversial issues. Some people can't do it, and perhaps you are in that category.

  • Ray Lutz

    May 2

    Ray Lutz

    • Steve: I deleted your comment (on the is Obama Osama video) because it is off topic. Please don't add such crap to the discussion.

  • May 2

    • Why are you so willing to believe the official party line that Obama is NOT Osama?! Who will protect us from Manchurian candidates if not you?

  • Ray Lutz

    May 6

    Ray Lutz

    • Steve, where do you really work?

  • May 6

    • What makes you think I work? Do you think I could actually spend so much time being outraged about the economy and the bastards who have destroyed it, and exported it, and impoverished the middle class if I weren't drastically under-employed?

  • Ray Lutz

    May 6

    Ray Lutz

    • Well, your FB page says university of Antarctica, so I knew that was probably wrong. But you are really good at asking a question and implying an answer. This is done in advertising all the time. I remember the Popeil Pocket Fisherman. The ad says "And boy, does it catch fish!" But that is a question, so they can get away with saying it without directly saying that you will catch fish.

      You ask "What makes you think..." and "Do you think..." but you still did not answer my question.

  • May 6

    • Why should I? You're my facebook friend, so you can see tons of personal information about me as it is, including all my photos, friends, relatives, activities, etc. I think I reveal quite a lot, frankly, to my friends, even if I don't know them in real life. But even I have limits, particularly with facebook friends who demonstrate paranoid tendencies.

  • May 6

    • Oh, and FYI, you should KNOW I don't work at University of Antarctica, not just suspect it, because there are no universities in Antarctica, as any halfway educated person should know. Scientists can barely survive there, for crying out loud!
    • But look up Stutts University on the internet. It's the oldest and the best!

  • Ray Lutz

    May 6

    Ray Lutz

    • Why don't you just answer the question instead of beating around the bush forever? Yes, I know that there are no universities in Antarctica, so that's why I am asking the question since it is not disclosed on your page, despite all the pictures, etc. that you have. And, yes, I am interested in having you answer the question directly, because I understand that if you are some sort of undercover agent, you have to be truthful, or at least that's what they imply on TV police shows.

  • May 6

    • Ray, that's a huge myth. They do that on TV all the time, and it is hilarious to cops, especially because drug dealers always say that to them when they do controlled buys: "You're not a cop are you?" Hahahaha! They always say, "No way, man!" And then they laugh their asses off about it later when they tell the story. The "man" part is the funniest, because that's also how druggies talk in the movies and on TV.

      So I am NOT some sort of undercover agent, I assure you.

      But please know, for your own edification, that this would mean nothing if I were. The cops can lie to you. That is the law. I could dig you up some proof from the lawbooks, if you want it. In fact, in some states, they've let cops lie so badly, they've been allowed to impersonate a criminal defendant's lawyer, which I think is REALLY outrageous!

  • Ray Lutz

    May 6

    Ray Lutz

    • So you are unemployed right now and a bit embarrassed to admit it, or something?

  • May 6

    • Hahaha! That's a funny question, Ray, considering the fact that if that were true, I would probably deny it, right? And if it were a "cover story," I would probably admit it. Your paranoia and silly questions have backed you into a dilemma like this one:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNHBUqfLnM#at=84

  • Ray Lutz

    May 7

    Ray Lutz

    • Sure, I won't know if you are lying to me, because it could happen at any time. But I still want you to tell me, and lie to me if you must. I can only point out that there is a commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness" so I will have to let you suffer with your own guilt trip if you decide to lie.

      Now, I will ask you again, and please just answer, even if you decide to lie.

  • Ray Lutz

    May 7

    Ray Lutz

    • Oh, I guess I had better ask the question: Who do you work for, and what is your occupation?

  • May 7

  • Ray Lutz

    May 7

    Ray Lutz

    • Please use text.

  • May 7

    • You know the song!

  • Ray Lutz

    May 7

    Ray Lutz

    • What does that mean?

Topic revision: r5 - 2016-05-16, UnknownUser
 

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